Shooting in Talkeenta

Two articles:

• KTNA
  
• And the ADN, which I think is less informative
  

First, this is a tragedy. In a small community like Talkeetna I'm sure that the waves from this will reverberate for some time. I just wanted to briefly respond to some of the comments I saw on these stories.

HokieBird What is this, the Wild West? A bar shooting? Were they wearing holstered guns?

glide Drunks and guns, not the best mix in a bar.

CarolO Why can't people go out for drinks and fun without carrying firearms? Drinks and booze has never mixed.

zidar Guns do not belong in bars. Our pioneer ancestors knew that, why is it so hard for some people to accept it? Meanwhile, RIP Dirk. What a great guy he was.

It is worth pointing out that Mr. Clark likely violated numerous firearms laws prior to pulling the trigger. Per AS 11.61.220 (Misconduct Involving Weapons V), possession of a firearm in a bar is illegal, even if you are not drinking. Additionally, if Mr. Clark was intoxicated, then that's another MIW charge. And if he had a history of mental illness, domestic violence, a felony conviction, or any other prohibiting offense, then even touching a firearm would be a federal offense (GCA 1968). The KTNA article makes it sound like he was not exactly lucid so he may well have been using a controlled substance or otherwise prohibited.

But, it is certainly fair to say that in Alaska, guns are not allowed in bars (perhaps making us wonder if it is unpossible -- how did Clark get his firearm past the magic No Guns Allowed Forcefield?). Moroever, the article makes it clear that this was not a drunken argument that got out of hand and escalated into a shooting. This was an execution, not a brawl between two drunks.

The real issue is the criminal and/or the possible mental illness, not the gun. We already have laws that make what Mr. Clark illegal. They didn't stop him. In fact, they could have made the situation worse. The ADN reports:

Someone saw Clark run out a back door, Gale Moses said, and everyone in the dining room stayed quiet, with the doors closed, unsure if the shooter was still around or if he would come back.

Luckily, Clark ran for it after his crime. It took the police 15 minutes to catch up with him. In that amount of time, he could have caused a lot of havoc on the other patrons, and unless someone was carrying in violation of state law then there'd be no real way to stop him.

I know this is crazy sounding, but I actually wouldn't mind seeing AS 11.61.220 amended. I think you should be allowed to carry a firearm in a bar. I'm ok with prohibiting people who are intoxicated from carrying firearms, but just entering a bar shouldn't mean you're required to sacrifice your safety. What about the patrons of Latitude that just wanted to listen to music? What about the designated driver who is concerned about their safety escorting friends home late at night? I think it would be better if possession in a bar was legal if you remain sober, although it should likely be an escalating offense (i.e., if you get into a shoving match that might just be simple assault, but you're carrying, and it is in a bar, then it may be MIW as well). Other aspects of MIW do this as well, elevating many other crimes on sensitive properties like schools to greater offenses if you commit them with a firearm.

In any event, condolences for the community are in order. It will be interesting to see if more details emerge, but this is one of those sad cases where all the laws in the world probably wouldn't stop a criminal and/or crazed murder.

Tacti-Kitty

 

Our cat has developed a strange fascination with molle gear.  Apparently he also likes the taste.  We have a weird (but tactical!) cat.

Reasoned Discourse

It has broken out over at Common Gunsense.

Ms. Peterson wrote:

Re: hand grenade sales at gun shows- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-rosenthal/requiring-background-chec_b_55907.html. From the article: " n Michigan, Ali Boumelhem, a member of Hezbollah, was convicted in September of conspiring to smuggle guns and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents testified that they saw him buying weapons at three gun shows. In Florida, Conor Claxton, accused of being linked to the IRA, testified last year that he and others had bought hand grenades and high-powered ammunition at gun shows to smuggle to Northern Ireland. In Texas, Muhammad Asrar, a Pakistani who pleaded guilty to immigration violations and illegal possession of ammunition, told authorities that he had been purchasing handguns, rifles and submachine guns at gun shows for seven years.*"

Also this article: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/tons-of-arms-flowing-into-mexico-but-from-where.htm. From the article: "Drug trafficker’s taste for high-power weaponry is evidenced by a joint ATF, FBI and Tucson Police Department investigation in April 2006. That effort led to the arrest of three members of the aforementioned Arellano Felix Organization for attempting to purchase machineguns and hand grenades from undercover agents. "

It looks like some hand grenades are for sale on-line: http://www.shopping.com/hand%20grenades/products~NS-1~linkin_id-8013490~cid-59079801511

I found several sites for these. Also this quote: " Vaughn spoke of his experience with thousands of gang investigations and how they had led to the recovery of such materiel as: explosives, heavy machine guns, rocket launchers, automatic rifles, grenades, plastic explosives, and land mines. He reported that often these weapons and parts were: traded for narcotics which were then sold on the street; sold by criminals specializing in military hardware; or, sold to gang members for use in crimes or against rival gangs or police. Vaughn confirmed that many of these weapons and parts are available at gun shows:"- from this article: http://www.vpc.org/studies/tupsix.htm

more about hand grenades: http://yarchive.net/gun/politics/hand_grenade_bank_rob.html
and: http://lasvegas.backpage.com/SportsEquipForSale/1000-us-military-m67-hand-grenades-for-sale/3323637
I guess this one is for a "practical joke": http://mp-pistol.com/boards/lofiversion/index.php?t20494.html

and this one: http://badphoenixcops.blogspot.com/2009/11/for-sale-60-hand-grenades-200-each-will.html

My response was censored.

Joan,

I was skeptical, because I've been to a few gun shows up here in Alaska and while occasionally there is a Class III item on display (usually a WW2 full auto firearm), and even more rarely one on sale, I've never seen grenades or explosives.

Unfortunately your links don't shed much light on the situation:
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/tons-of-arms-flowing-into-mexico-but-from-where.htm - The undercover agents were pretending to do something illegal. It is illicit to do this already. It is the same as undercover narcotics officers pretending to sell crack.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-rosenthal/requiring-background-chec_b_55907.html
This is an opinion piece by the founder of Stop Handgun Violence and AHSA, two noted gun control groups. Claxton may have testified that he bought hand grenades, but he wasn't tried for it and I haven't found a news (not opinion) piece that suggests that he did. That doesn't mean it isn't out there, but I just haven't found it yet with a casual search.

http://www.shopping.com/hand%20grenades/products~NS-1~linkin_id-8013490~cid-59079801511
Your online sale link pointed to some lamps, Airsoft Grenades (full of green gas and BB-sized paintballs), Xmas ornaments, and inerts.

http://yarchive.net/gun/politics/hand_grenade_bank_rob.html
A hypothetical article about how effective a hand grenade might be for robbing banks.

http://lasvegas.backpage.com/SportsEquipForSale/1000-us-military-m67-hand-grenades-for-sale/3323637
The equivalent of a CraigsList posting. By the way, maybe there is a bridge for sale...

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/lofiversion/index.php?t20494.html
This is a story about inerts. Inerts are no more dangerous than bricks. Often they are made into jokester items, like the infamous "Customer Service -- Take a Number!" pin.

http://badphoenixcops.blogspot.com/2009/11/for-sale-60-hand-grenades-200-each-will.html
A blog post about an allegedly lazy cop that failed to follow up on a confidential informant. By the way, the author uses sexist slurs about the female officer such as "It was until a dumbass female lieutenant fucked it up..." (is it relevant that she's female?). "Maybe Messina is craving some black stove pipe and Yahwey ain't given in...who knows..." (is this supposed to be a sexual reference?). It goes on and on.

This sort of research makes the cut at the VPC but you're smarter than that, right? If your thesis is that hand grenades are commonly used in crime and are readily acquired at gun shows there should be better evidence.

Here's some actual events involving grenades:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&sqi=2&ved=0CC8QFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msnbc.msn.com%2Fid%2F29550131%2F&rct=j&q=hand%20grenade%20used%20in%20crime&ei=l4S-TLCwCpD4swOOj-ydDQ&usg=AFQjCNG0qDCUHA9KZuHCYhEWi_di4QvMzA&cad=rja

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CBYQFjABOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nydailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fny_crime%2F2009%2F04%2F26%2F2009-04-26_gun_buyback_bombs_in_bx.html&rct=j&q=hand%20grenade%20used%20in%20crime&ei=6oS-TPmBBoWasAODgd2TDQ&usg=AFQjCNFSiIWDEWRZ9OdKTzoNoYFkQOhUMA&cad=rja

Stories about hand grenade crime are actually kind of hard to find. I think any dumbass selling NFA items illegally at a gun show would not be selling for long; it isn't as if gun shows are secret and the "Hand Grenades 4 Cheap!" booth would probably draw a bunch of undercover officers (if it wasn't run by one!).

Cheers,
Chris from Alaska

Of course, debunking her examples wasn't welcome. By the way, my earlier comment about how our scary "assault weapon feature" adjustable stock allows smaller framed women to use firearms was allowed but went unanswered; she had no justification beyond "but they look scary!" (I'm not joking or exaggerating) to ban that feature despite the known, tangible benefit to women. Moreover, the links she referred to on the hand grenade issue pointed to a quite misogynistic website. Ironically, Ms. Peterson appears to be coming out against women's issues which is quite disappointing for a "progressive" viewpoint.

As a side note, I'm not a huge fan of hand grenades, personally. I just don't see an epidemic of hand grenade crime, they are already highly regulated, and I really doubt that you can just go to a gun show and buy one over the counter.

I'm going to file this under GASG even though Gwen isn't involved; maybe GASG can start becoming a label for all the anti's shenanigans?

Guns in Park Service Buildings?

A National Park Service worker doing restoration work in a historic Skagway building recently discovered a rusted 19th-century Smith & Wesson handgun hidden inside a wall.

Looks like a nice piece. I hope it ends up in a museum or display!

The Antis -- Brady Campaign's Definition of Gun Ban

Our local anti has been quiet lately, and Sebastian steered us all over to Ms. Peterson's blog. Ms. Peterson is a Brady campaign leader. She is a true believer and I don't think she can be reasoned with. I thought there was interesting information to be had, however. She argues that she doesn't want to ban guns.

I wrote this:

I want to ensure that I am clear on your position, so I would like to restate your words to ensure that I've correctly understood you. You oppose a gun ban. Above, you define a gun ban as prohibiting every person in a society from lawfully possessing any firearm in any location under any circumstances. I don't want to put words in your mouth so please correct me if I am incorrectly interpreting you.

Can you name any place in the world that has what you would consider to be a "gun ban" so that we can look at it as an example of what you think of as being "too far?"

Ms. Peterson replied (in part):

Yes, you have my position correct. Chris.As to your question, I don't have a model in mind because the U.S is such a different country.

Ms. Peterson stated down in the comments that her idea of a gun ban is a society where not a single individual is lawfully allowed to carry any firearm. She couldn't provide examples of such a society (probably because it doesn't exist; nations that disarm their militaries tend to not remain states for long). By her definition, there is not a gun ban in the UK or even in China. It is like saying that there was no ban on African-American achievement during the height of Jim Crow, because surely one African American person somewhere was allowed to go to college or sit on a board of directors or something.

So, it is fair to say that Ms. Peterson doesn't want to ban ALL of your guns. Just many or most of them, for many or most people.

I don't think arguing with her is effective. She, like Gwen, is a True Believer. As Matt Carmel says in Sebastian's comments:

Why keep on going back to the well with Japete? The more you engage, the more you bestow her legitimacy. It is a religion to her, nothing more, nothing less. You will never shake a belief system so why try?

Palmer Fall Gun Show

We went for a little bird hunting today up in Palmer (yum, grouse!). It was a beautiful day with all the mountains out. We also saw five bald eagles and some ginormous frozen grizzly tracks.

On the way back we swung by the Palmer Fall Gun Show. On the whole it was a decent trip. Admission is only $7, and some very generous sponsors have paid admission for some folks such as military. There were some great exhibits. I was a big fan of the awesome collection of military battle and assault rifles; they had some nice historical pieces and rare variants. There were also excellent displays from the local cowboy action shooters, black powder folks, and others. There were some beautiful items for sale; I was sorely tempted by a gorgeous S&W M&P revolver.

On the negative side, I didn't see much to buy. There were a lot of old guns in varying condition that were very overpriced. $300 for a roughly used Ruger 10/22 with no custom parts? $150 for a beat up NEF single shot shotgun? $700 used Remington 700s? $300 Mossberg shotguns in fair condition? $150+ for Marlin 60s? I could go to Freddie Meyer down the street and get a NEW gun for those prices. On the milsurp side, there were $200+ Mosin-Nagants (91/30s with standard round receivers -- sell for $80 online...) and $400 Ishapore Enfields.

I saw some decent prices on 30/30s but didn't have a need for one. There was also a dealer with decent prices on a good selection of new handguns, so I picked up a new S&W. He overcharged me by twenty bucks over the advertised "PFD Special" but I was too tired to make a fuss about it; I still got a better price than downtown. Additionally, we got a stack of $4 ammo cans. Finally, there were some good prices on ammo but not so much better than downtown that I felt a need to buy ($15/50 pistol rounds, for example; my usual plinking/target supply runs about $16-18/box at Sportsman's).

I have some miscelleneous stuff to sell (Ruger 10/22 stocks, a Browning Buckmark rifle, etc) but didn't feel like trying to sell at the show. We were in a hurry as the grouse meat was in the trunk.

Bottom line -- I'd suggest going out and checking out the show. Admission is cheap, the weather this weekend is gorgeous making for a nice drive to the valley, and there really are some nice displays. Hopefully there are more bargains on Sunday, or dealers may be willing to negotiate more as they feel the sands running low. However, be realistic. People don't seem to be in a selling mood and selection feels picked over.

Tactical Pants

For any who are wondering, the new Kindle will fit into the front pocket of 5.11 Covert Casual Pants.